Archive for April 2009

You Must be Born of Water and the Spirit

April 18, 2009

by Greg Tidwell

Jay has asked for clarification, writing:

Greg has published articles in which he lists certain doctrinal errors that damn (cause apostasy, cause one to fall away). I’m sure these aren’t intended as complete lists. And I’m not asking Greg to provide such a list. I just want to know: do these still reflect Greg’s beliefs?

Thus, in this post I want to reiterate that I believe a rejection of the biblical Way of Salvation is apostasy and places ones soul in jeopardy. (more…)

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God Always Tells the Truth

April 18, 2009

by Greg Tidwell

Jay has asked for clarification, writing:

Greg has published articles in which he lists certain doctrinal errors that damn (cause apostasy, cause one to fall away). I’m sure these aren’t intended as complete lists. And I’m not asking Greg to provide such a list. I just want to know: do these still reflect Greg’s beliefs?

Thus, in this post I want to reiterate that I believe a rejection of the authority of Scripture leads to apostasy and places ones soul in jeopardy. (more…)

The Lord Will Judge His People

April 18, 2009

by Greg Tidwell

I apologize for being so long away from our discussion. Picking up at Jay’s post “Not a Man-made List But a Scriptural Rationale,”  let’s attempt to move forward.

With a lawyer’s dexterity, Jay begins by providing a catalogue of conservative preachers whom he vilifies as composers of checklists. He proceeds to link me with this noble company and claims that I have produced a checklist to determine when a Christian falls into divine judgment.

While Jay’s assertions are rhetorically nimble, they suffer from a lack of accuracy. I take exception to his claims on two fronts. (more…)

New Policy on Comments

April 13, 2009

If you check around the internet a bit, you’ll find that GraceConversation is developing a reputation for less-than-Christian comments. I think we deserve the criticism, and it’s my fault. You see, I urged the other participants to agree to set this site up without moderation, for a number of reasons. First, my experience over at OneInJesus.info has been good. I’ve very rarely had to moderate a commenter. Second, I thought it would be helpful for the four principals to hear what the audience was thinking unfiltered. Third, I’ve heard lots of complaints against moderation. Fourth, none of us has the time to pre-clear all the hundreds of comments. I was wrong.

Therefore, the four of us have agreed to a new policy: (more…)

This week

April 11, 2009

I just received a note from Greg, explaining that he has several personal and church commitments coming up. He concludes,

Hopefully, I will be back in our discussion by the end of next week.

Just didn’t want you to wonder why I did not respond in a timely manner.

We all have commitments, and the arrangement among the four authors is that the schedule is therefore flexible.

In the meantime, I ask that those who are in sympathy with Greg’s views on apostasy post comments offering their own scriptural rationales for why one or more of these doctrinal errors cause a Christian to fall away.

You see, the goal here is not to “win.” The goal is to be faithful to God, and being faithful to God means finding the truth of his will. Therefore, I truly hope that the best possible case is presented in defense of his views. If he’s right, I want to be persuaded.

Not a Man-made List But a Scriptural Rationale

April 10, 2009

by Jay Guin

Greg writes,

My Progressive friends keep asking for a line to be drawn that will say exactly which error will send one to hell under what circumstances. I really don’t want to be offensive, but I believe they have fallen into legalism at this point. They really are using a “check list” approach that is dogmatic and contrary to a proper appreciation for the grace of God and our status as stewards accountable before our Lord and Master.

Really? You see, the thing is: I already have lists and lines of salvation aplenty. My bookshelves sag under the weight of checklists written by Daniel Sommer, David Lipscomb, H. Leo Boles, Thomas Warren, Bert Thompson, Goebel Music, etc., etc., etc. My conservative brothers have never been reluctant to draw salvation lines or offer checklists. They don’t agree with each other on just which doctrinal errors result in apostasy or why, but they do seem to agree on the drawing of lines and making of lists.

All I ask from Greg is the scriptural basis for his own published checklists.

Now, I admit to some uncertainty. Sometimes Greg sounds like he and I are in complete agreement. Other times, I’m not so sure. However, I know for a fact that as late as August 2007 we were not in agreement. So it seems only right to ask whether Greg has changed his mind since he published articles drawing lines that say certain errors will send one to hell. (more…)

Check Lists

April 10, 2009

by Greg Tidwell

My Progressive friends keep asking for a line to be drawn that will say exactly which error will send one to hell under what circumstances. I really don’t want to be offensive, but I believe they have fallen into legalism at this point. They really are using a “check list” approach that is dogmatic and contrary to a proper appreciation for the grace of God and our status as stewards accountable before our Lord and Master.

What if I were to use this same approach in discussing prayer, for example? You cannot show me a line of Scripture which says exactly how often I am to pray. So what if I decide to only offer a decadal prayer, going before God for a few moments once every ten years? Could you prove I would be wrong, however obvious the error might be? Not everything to which we are accountable can be objectively quantified. To attempt to do so is a form of legalism, also known as “perfectionism.” (I am grateful to Dr. Harvey L. Floyd for introducing me to B. B. Warfield’s classic study on Perfectionism, which I would commend to anyone wanting a further understanding of this error.) (more…)