Over the next few days, beginning on Monday, I’m going to post a series of articles dealing with Romans 14 and Galatians, all leading up to Gal 5:4: falling from grace by seeking justification other than by faith.

At that point, we will have stated, and set forth the case for, all three of the ways that Christians can fall from grace that Todd and I contend for.

After that, Lord willing, I intend to post some material on how that theology plays out in terms of church discipline. The passages on disfellowshipping a member of the church are so important, and so often misunderstood, that I can’t leave the topic without putting those teachings into the blog. After all, much of the division within the Churches of Christ has arisen over one church disfellowshipping another church down the road. We’ve even had churches and preachers disfellowship a preacher from another congregation — even in another state! — by publishing a full-page ad in a newspaper.

At that point, the conversation on apostasy will be over. Todd and I are considering whether to take on another topic with another conversationalist. But if so, it will be after we take some time off.

Greg Tidwell has asked to step aside from this dialogue for a while due to other obligations that demand his attention. So that the dialogue may continue, Mac Deaver has kindly agreed to fill in for Greg.

Many readers will already be familiar with Brother Deaver. He graduated from Oklahoma Christian College, received an M.A. from Harding University Graduate School of Religion, and received a doctoral degree from Tennessee Bible College. He has preached for over 40 years, taught at Brown Trail School of Preaching, Southwest School of Bible Studies, and Tennessee Bible College. He is the editor of Biblical Notes Quarterly and is a noted debater on Biblical issues.

Brother Deaver is the father of Todd Deaver, one of the other participants in this dialogue, and Weylan Deaver, who are both ministers of the gospel.

Mac and Phil are coordinating their response to Todd’s and my posts and plan to announce the timing of their reply shortly.

We deeply appreciate the readers’ patience with this transition. We’ll be back to regular posting soon.

Jay

If you participate in a Christian forum or maintain a blog, please post a notice iniviting readers to read and comment. For this sort of dialogue to truly work well, it needs the broadest circulation possible.

Thanks.

Jay

You really should subscribe either by an RSS reader, such as Google Reader, or by email, because the posts on this blog will pop up unpredictably as the parties have time to respond to each other.

The link to subscribe by email is shown to the right.

Google Reader is a free online program. You just sign up for an account and then add the web addresses for sites you like to keep up with.

For a smartphone, you can check your RSS feeds via www.google.com/reader/m or www.google.com/reader/i (for iPhones).

Here’s a link to a site that explains all this and reviews several alternative readers — but in my experience, Google Reader is the most popular, and for good reason.

Jay Guin

I have known Jay for a while and, though we do not agree on some issues, he has always been kind and gracious in his dealings with me. I have recently made the acquaintance of Todd Deaver and have appreciated having the opportunity to learn more of his perspective on the brotherhood. Phil Sanders and I are old friends and fellow travelers along a common path. I am grateful to have the opportunity to interact with each of these talented men.

It would be good to place on the table that each of the men involved in this discussion is speaking only for himself, although we each reflect perspectives shared by others. It would not, for example, be fair to hold Phil accountable for my comments or to hold Todd accountable for what Jay writes.

As I see it, the four of us have the following points of agreement:

First, we are agreed that God has spoken authoritatively in Scripture and that the Bible is a reliable and sufficient source for Christian teaching.

Second, we are agreed that God sent His only Son, Jesus, to die for our sins and that salvation is only in Jesus Christ.

Third, we are agreed that the grace of God only saves those who receive it in penitent faith.

Fourth, we are agreed that those Christians who lose their faith in Jesus are no longer saved.

Fifth, we are agreed that those Christians who rebel against the Lordship of Jesus (described in Heb 10:26ff — deliberately continuing to sin) are no longer saved.

And, as I see it, we have the following points of disagreement:

First, we disagree as to the way in which doctrinal error places one outside of the grace of God.

Second, we disagree as to the extent to which Christian fellowship should be extended to those who are in doctrinal error.

Neither of these lists are intended to be exhaustive. We disagree, for example, on the specifics of how to deal with divorce and remarriage and on the Regulative Principle of Biblical authority, among many other issues. We also have other important areas of agreement, such as the personal indwelling of the Holy Spirit within Christians, or the Bodily Resurrection of Jesus Christ, among many other truths. However, I believe the seven points of agreement/disagreement noted above serve as a good starting point for our dialogue.

Offered for public consideration in the hope of better mutual understanding,

GATidwell

I’m the author of The Holy Spirit and Revolutionary Grace: God’s Antidotes for Division in the Churches of Christ, and I operate a blog at OneInJesus.info. I’m an elder at the University Church of Christ in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and I practice law for a living.

Todd, of course, is the author of Facing Our Failure and has his own blog at Bridging the Grace Divide. Todd is a fellow progressive. Todd is the minister for the Oliver Springs Church of Christ.

Phil and Greg are regular columnists with the Gospel Advocate. It’s fair, I think, to refer to them as “conservatives.” They are not what some would call “ultra-conservatives.”

Phil operates the popular Philanswers blog and has recently joined In Search of the Lord’s Way, a ministry that produces a widely syndicated television broadcast. Before making this transition, Phil was the longtime minister for the Concord Road Church of Christ on the south side of Nashville.

Greg also writes regularly for Church of Christ-affiliated publications, including several articles posted online at the Forthright Magazine website. Greg has been the pulpit minster at the church of Christ which meets at Fishinger and Kenny Roads, Columbus, Ohio for 25 years. Their building is situated next to the Ohio State campus, and they operate a campus ministry there. (I’m a big fan of campus ministry.)

The conversation will begin with a statement of agreed principles. Phil and Greg will then take up the question of when does a Christian lose his soul — the apostasy question. Closely related, of course, is the question of fellowship.

The site will permit comments, and there will be no moderation unless someone unduly tests our patience. We expect all commenters to follow the same rule that applies to the four of us –

(2 Tim 2:24-25) And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth … .

I’m hoping for lots of comments, and we may well not have the time to respond to all of them — or even most of them. We really need to focus on the main conversation. However, please don’t let that discourage you from commenting, as I’m sure all participants will feel as I do: I need all the help I can get. All thoughts will be most appreciated.

Please be in prayer that this conversation brings glory to God and helps to heal the division that so affects the Churches of Christ.

Jay Guin