Comments on: Discipline: Holy division http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/26/discipline-holy-division/ GraceConversation.com Wed, 18 Aug 2010 23:24:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: desertwanderer http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/26/discipline-holy-division/#comment-2504 desertwanderer Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:55:50 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=514#comment-2504 Thank you for your response. I was rereading what I had written above and wanted to clarify something. My statement, "because no one would address the elders with me" in no way implies that I searched out people to oppose the leadership. It is just a statement of fact that because there was not a second witness that was willing to go with me, I did not entertain any accusations towards the eldership. I believe searching out witnesses to oppose a leadership is very detrimental for the seeker and the congregation. Thank you once again to all the men that have taken time and effort to discuss the very relevant topics covered in this conversation. I stand in awe at how much content can be produced with accuracy and love and those men still carry on an active family and work life as well as serve in there home congregations. Blessings to all, this has been a blessing to me. Steve Valentine Thank you for your response. I was rereading what I had written above and wanted to clarify something. My statement, “because no one would address the elders with me” in no way implies that I searched out people to oppose the leadership. It is just a statement of fact that because there was not a second witness that was willing to go with me, I did not entertain any accusations towards the eldership. I believe searching out witnesses to oppose a leadership is very detrimental for the seeker and the congregation.

Thank you once again to all the men that have taken time and effort to discuss the very relevant topics covered in this conversation. I stand in awe at how much content can be produced with accuracy and love and those men still carry on an active family and work life as well as serve in there home congregations.

Blessings to all, this has been a blessing to me.

Steve Valentine

]]> By: Jay Guin http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/26/discipline-holy-division/#comment-2500 Jay Guin Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:33:38 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=514#comment-2500 desertwanderer, Thanks for the story. One gentle meeting with the elders may not change their minds. But if all those who feel compelled to leave lovingly explain their concerns, sometimes change will happen. Slipping out the backdoor without a word just leaves them guessing. desertwanderer,

Thanks for the story. One gentle meeting with the elders may not change their minds. But if all those who feel compelled to leave lovingly explain their concerns, sometimes change will happen. Slipping out the backdoor without a word just leaves them guessing.

]]> By: desertwanderer http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/26/discipline-holy-division/#comment-2497 desertwanderer Thu, 27 Aug 2009 18:02:16 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=514#comment-2497 Addressing the eldership of a congregation is very difficult as seen through the lens of 1 Timothy 5:19 and the fact that most congregants don't wish to "buck the system" even when they know the leadership to be wrong. Because "experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed" (Decliration of Independence, July 4, 1776). I handled a situation much like you have suggested and it does seem to be better for the Kingdom. when faced with a leadership problem that just would not change to do what was right, I made the choice to move my family and did just as you suggest. Without making accusations (because no one would address the elders with me), I gave the leadership very specific reasons for our leaving that membership and why, in good conscience, I could not keep my family under there leadership. I believe it was not my ministry to "fix" the problems of that congregation and now several years later it seems that recovery has been made at that congregation. I could not imagine the shape my family woud be in if we had remained. Addressing the eldership of a congregation is very difficult as seen through the lens of 1 Timothy 5:19 and the fact that most congregants don’t wish to “buck the system” even when they know the leadership to be wrong. Because “experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed” (Decliration of Independence, July 4, 1776).

I handled a situation much like you have suggested and it does seem to be better for the Kingdom. when faced with a leadership problem that just would not change to do what was right, I made the choice to move my family and did just as you suggest. Without making accusations (because no one would address the elders with me), I gave the leadership very specific reasons for our leaving that membership and why, in good conscience, I could not keep my family under there leadership. I believe it was not my ministry to “fix” the problems of that congregation and now several years later it seems that recovery has been made at that congregation. I could not imagine the shape my family woud be in if we had remained.

]]>