Comments on: Conclusion http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/21/conclusion/ GraceConversation.com Wed, 18 Aug 2010 23:24:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Glenn Dowling http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/21/conclusion/#comment-2459 Glenn Dowling Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:59:10 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=491#comment-2459 Randall, You said it well, brother! When one clearly sees the magnitude of Christ's sacrifice...the ONLY response is doxology -"Praise God from whom all blessings flow.." It is certainly not a checklist of "damnable sins" like instrumetal music. :) Paul claims he is the "chief sinner." I will debate that issue - I believe I am. The more I grow, the more I am aware of my sins, the less I am impressed by my own "righteousnes" ...which Isaiah 64:6 says is "like filty rags." I know I will be saved because Christ will never let go. That's why grace is so amazing! Randall, You said it well, brother! When one clearly sees the magnitude of Christ’s sacrifice…the ONLY response is doxology -”Praise God from whom all blessings flow..”
It is certainly not a checklist of “damnable sins” like instrumetal music. :)

Paul claims he is the “chief sinner.” I will debate that issue – I believe I am. The more I grow, the more I am aware of my sins, the less I am impressed by my own “righteousnes” …which Isaiah 64:6 says is “like filty rags.” I know I will be saved because Christ will never let go. That’s why grace is so amazing!

]]> By: Randall http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/21/conclusion/#comment-2458 Randall Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:37:10 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=491#comment-2458 Glenn, From early on in this "conversation" there has been a small handful that indicated the difference between the "conservatives" and the "progressives" was that the progressives allowed for more latitude in what man had to do to get and remain saved. It may not be quite fair to describe the differences as merely quantitative rather than qualitative; but even the progressive perspective is still very much a CofC perspective and it still lacks a real grasp of the grace of God. I wish all my sisters and brothers in the CofC the best. I trust the gospel is clear enough and scripture plain enough that in their hearts they do receive the gospel despite being caught up "in the smoke of their own chimneys" and the teaching of those they consider to be their "spiritual betters." Peace, Randall Glenn,
From early on in this “conversation” there has been a small handful that indicated the difference between the “conservatives” and the “progressives” was that the progressives allowed for more latitude in what man had to do to get and remain saved. It may not be quite fair to describe the differences as merely quantitative rather than qualitative; but even the progressive perspective is still very much a CofC perspective and it still lacks a real grasp of the grace of God.

I wish all my sisters and brothers in the CofC the best. I trust the gospel is clear enough and scripture plain enough that in their hearts they do receive the gospel despite being caught up “in the smoke of their own chimneys” and the teaching of those they consider to be their “spiritual betters.”
Peace,
Randall

]]> By: Glenn Dowling http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/21/conclusion/#comment-2457 Glenn Dowling Sun, 23 Aug 2009 00:00:58 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=491#comment-2457 Keith, Forgive me, my intent was not to offend but "gently" rebuke. The subject is far too important to let this go unchallenged. Further, an "Oh,never mind" ...would be the perfect "out" for someone who did not care or feigned their true feelings. How much explaining does "...whereby we are sealed by the Holy Spirit" need? Sealed means sealed. We are not getting out...because it is christ that ensures our salvation...not "ourselves lest any man boast. This is consistent with Christ's comments in John 6:39. "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. Then from 1 John 5:13: "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you MAY KNOW that you have eternal life." God's word gives us assurance of our salvation, whereas there seems to be no "security of the believer" in CofC teaching. Eternal life sounds more like "provisional" life...akin to someone on a skateboard on ice. Where is the peace in that? Keith, Forgive me, my intent was not to offend but “gently” rebuke. The subject is far too important to let this go unchallenged. Further, an “Oh,never mind” …would be the perfect “out” for someone who did not care or feigned their true feelings.

How much explaining does “…whereby we are sealed by the Holy Spirit” need? Sealed means sealed. We are not getting out…because it is christ that ensures our salvation…not “ourselves lest any man boast.

This is consistent with Christ’s comments in John 6:39. “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Then from 1 John 5:13: “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you MAY KNOW that you have eternal life.”

God’s word gives us assurance of our salvation, whereas there seems to be no “security of the believer” in CofC teaching. Eternal life sounds more like “provisional” life…akin to someone on a skateboard on ice. Where is the peace in that?

]]> By: Keith Brenton http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/21/conclusion/#comment-2451 Keith Brenton Sat, 22 Aug 2009 19:36:25 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=491#comment-2451 Glenn, reductionism is reductionism, whether it is a list of three elements or a chart of seven columns. Instead of a drive-by strafing, why not engage people who do not have your understanding in a conversation that will draw them in and explain your point of view? Explain why Ephesians 4:30 is crucial to your way of thinking? Isn't that what a loving brother in Christ would do? Otherwise, why not just reduce your number of keystrokes to "- Oh, never mind"? It'd be just as illuminating to the rest of us. Glenn, reductionism is reductionism, whether it is a list of three elements or a chart of seven columns.

Instead of a drive-by strafing, why not engage people who do not have your understanding in a conversation that will draw them in and explain your point of view? Explain why Ephesians 4:30 is crucial to your way of thinking?

Isn’t that what a loving brother in Christ would do?

Otherwise, why not just reduce your number of keystrokes to “- Oh, never mind”?

It’d be just as illuminating to the rest of us.

]]> By: Glenn Dowling http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/21/conclusion/#comment-2449 Glenn Dowling Sat, 22 Aug 2009 16:47:09 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=491#comment-2449 Gentlemen: The gospel can be reduced to three elements: 1)Jesus lived a perfect life, 2)Jesus died on the cross - for our sins, 3) Jesus was resurrected on the third day. Praise God! Remove any one and there can be no salvation. We are saved by grace through faith, it is a gift from God, not of yourselves lest any man boast." How you can draw your silly diagrams and put "baptism" as the "key" is beyond me. This, I believe, is when one truly "falls from grace." Not saying your are lost in the salvation sense - but have fallen back to man's "formula for getting saved and staying saved. And further, you seem to have no grasp of Ephesians 4:30 "Grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.” The sad reality is that you, well-meaning Church of Christ conservatives, are much closer to Mormonism than to Evangelical Christianity. May God have mercy... Gentlemen: The gospel can be reduced to three elements: 1)Jesus lived a perfect life, 2)Jesus died on the cross – for our sins, 3) Jesus was resurrected on the third day. Praise God! Remove any one and there can be no salvation. We are saved by grace through faith, it is a gift from God, not of yourselves lest any man boast.”

How you can draw your silly diagrams and put “baptism” as the “key” is beyond me. This, I believe, is when one truly “falls from grace.” Not saying your are lost in the salvation sense – but have fallen back to man’s “formula for getting saved and staying saved. And further, you seem to have no grasp of Ephesians 4:30 “Grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.” The sad reality is that you, well-meaning Church of Christ conservatives, are much closer to Mormonism than to Evangelical Christianity. May God have mercy…

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