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	<title>Comments on: Epicycles and the Conservative Churches of Christ</title>
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		<title>By: Table of Contents &#171; GraceConversation.com</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/11/epicycles-and-the-conservative-churches-of-christ/#comment-2446</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Table of Contents &#171; GraceConversation.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 16:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=383#comment-2446</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] GraceConversation.com      &#171; In Response to Mac&#8217;s Final&#160;Post  Epicycles and the Conservative Churches of&#160;Christ [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] GraceConversation.com      &laquo; In Response to Mac&#8217;s Final&nbsp;Post  Epicycles and the Conservative Churches of&nbsp;Christ [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: nick gill</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/11/epicycles-and-the-conservative-churches-of-christ/#comment-2322</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nick gill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=383#comment-2322</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is part and parcel of belonging to a tradition that was &lt;b&gt;born&lt;/b&gt; as a reaction to perceived error.

Reactionary, or at least responsive, thinking runs deep and wide in so much of our thinking and publishing.

That&#039;s not necessarily a bad thing, but clearly it can poison us if it is most of what we imbibe.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is part and parcel of belonging to a tradition that was <b>born</b> as a reaction to perceived error.</p>
<p>Reactionary, or at least responsive, thinking runs deep and wide in so much of our thinking and publishing.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not necessarily a bad thing, but clearly it can poison us if it is most of what we imbibe.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John Miller</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/11/epicycles-and-the-conservative-churches-of-christ/#comment-2318</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Miller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=383#comment-2318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jay, you asked &quot;Why can’t the conservatives simply state their doctrine of apostasy?&quot; After reading posts by Phil, Greg, and Mac, I came to the same conclusion you did: &quot;Because there’s no single doctrine that fits the results they want to achieve.&quot; 

Over the years, I&#039;ve read several articles (I don&#039;t have the sources easily at hand) where leading conservative lights compare progressives to liberal judges who use the law to justify the result they want to achieve. This judicial philosophy has troubled me since law school and I find this methodology (decisions based on desired results rather than flowing from a &quot;philosophy&quot;) to be no more justifiable when used by Christians than by secular, &quot;the Constitution is a living document&quot; judges.

Thanks to you and Todd for so clearly and patiently spelling out a philosophy of how to define heresy that is based on Scripture rather than human philosophy.

John Miller]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay, you asked &#8220;Why can’t the conservatives simply state their doctrine of apostasy?&#8221; After reading posts by Phil, Greg, and Mac, I came to the same conclusion you did: &#8220;Because there’s no single doctrine that fits the results they want to achieve.&#8221; </p>
<p>Over the years, I&#8217;ve read several articles (I don&#8217;t have the sources easily at hand) where leading conservative lights compare progressives to liberal judges who use the law to justify the result they want to achieve. This judicial philosophy has troubled me since law school and I find this methodology (decisions based on desired results rather than flowing from a &#8220;philosophy&#8221;) to be no more justifiable when used by Christians than by secular, &#8220;the Constitution is a living document&#8221; judges.</p>
<p>Thanks to you and Todd for so clearly and patiently spelling out a philosophy of how to define heresy that is based on Scripture rather than human philosophy.</p>
<p>John Miller</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: desertwanderer</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/11/epicycles-and-the-conservative-churches-of-christ/#comment-2317</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[desertwanderer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=383#comment-2317</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ron,
Thank you very much.  Please keep the Body down there in your prayers.

I have a cassette (yes I said cassette) set that Rubel did back in the late 80&#039;s early 90&#039;s at Richland Hills CoC.  The title...wait for it...Will the Church Survive the 90&#039;s?  It&#039;s a good listen and I&#039;m trying to find a way to put them on MP3 so I can listen to them in the truck.

I&#039;ll look for the book.  Thanks for the title.

Because of what Christ did,
SV]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron,<br />
Thank you very much.  Please keep the Body down there in your prayers.</p>
<p>I have a cassette (yes I said cassette) set that Rubel did back in the late 80&#8242;s early 90&#8242;s at Richland Hills CoC.  The title&#8230;wait for it&#8230;Will the Church Survive the 90&#8242;s?  It&#8217;s a good listen and I&#8217;m trying to find a way to put them on MP3 so I can listen to them in the truck.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll look for the book.  Thanks for the title.</p>
<p>Because of what Christ did,<br />
SV</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Gill</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/11/epicycles-and-the-conservative-churches-of-christ/#comment-2315</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick Gill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=383#comment-2315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A bit of sad warning for those of us who hope for unity in our time: almost every preacher&#039;s library I&#039;ve ever been in has copies of the Geocentricity Primer, because a) preachers can&#039;t bring themselves to throw away free books, and b) despite all the time and evidence, etc etc, Geocentricity still has its devotees.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bit of sad warning for those of us who hope for unity in our time: almost every preacher&#8217;s library I&#8217;ve ever been in has copies of the Geocentricity Primer, because a) preachers can&#8217;t bring themselves to throw away free books, and b) despite all the time and evidence, etc etc, Geocentricity still has its devotees.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Rob Woodfin</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/11/epicycles-and-the-conservative-churches-of-christ/#comment-2307</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob Woodfin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=383#comment-2307</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve,

The name of the book is “I Just Want to be a Christian.” It was written by Rubel Shelly.

Thanks for asking. And thanks for the work you are doing for the cause of Christ in West Texas.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>The name of the book is “I Just Want to be a Christian.” It was written by Rubel Shelly.</p>
<p>Thanks for asking. And thanks for the work you are doing for the cause of Christ in West Texas.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Rich</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/11/epicycles-and-the-conservative-churches-of-christ/#comment-2306</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rich]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=383#comment-2306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Alan S.:

You got the real point.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan S.:</p>
<p>You got the real point.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: desertwanderer</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/11/epicycles-and-the-conservative-churches-of-christ/#comment-2304</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[desertwanderer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=383#comment-2304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ron,
You can&#039;t just leave us hanging like that.  What&#039;s the book title?

Steve Valentine]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron,<br />
You can&#8217;t just leave us hanging like that.  What&#8217;s the book title?</p>
<p>Steve Valentine</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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		<title>By: Rob Woodfin</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/11/epicycles-and-the-conservative-churches-of-christ/#comment-2303</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob Woodfin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=383#comment-2303</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Alan is right that ridiculing the conservatives is not a good approach, even when the provocations are often far to the other end of the spectrum from humorous. But in reading Rich’s explanation of why Galileo was an “unfortunate choice” as an illustration in this discussion, I was reminded of another figure who was similarly disparaged in more recent times.

As I was settling into the Church of Christ a quarter century ago, the conservatives were in the process of throwing one their own to the curb. Though he had once been heralded as a brilliant minister and writer, with books in almost every CoC library, when he wrote a plea for Christian unity in 1986, his plate was broken in at least half of the fellowship halls across the brotherhood. For twenty years I accepted as “gospel” the warning to keep away from anything to do with him or folks like him who had “gone off the deep end.” I might still hold that same opinion today except for what my conservative brethren call an “unfortunate choice;” I finally read that book.

While there are obviously issues that conservatives and progressives simply are not going to agree on, the reason why conversations like these are so important is because I know there are more than a few folks who would love to hear both sides but may never have the opportunity unless they find a blog such as this one. And I wholeheartedly agree that we certainly don’t want to do anything to insult or discourage those who are seeking to make an informed decision.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan is right that ridiculing the conservatives is not a good approach, even when the provocations are often far to the other end of the spectrum from humorous. But in reading Rich’s explanation of why Galileo was an “unfortunate choice” as an illustration in this discussion, I was reminded of another figure who was similarly disparaged in more recent times.</p>
<p>As I was settling into the Church of Christ a quarter century ago, the conservatives were in the process of throwing one their own to the curb. Though he had once been heralded as a brilliant minister and writer, with books in almost every CoC library, when he wrote a plea for Christian unity in 1986, his plate was broken in at least half of the fellowship halls across the brotherhood. For twenty years I accepted as “gospel” the warning to keep away from anything to do with him or folks like him who had “gone off the deep end.” I might still hold that same opinion today except for what my conservative brethren call an “unfortunate choice;” I finally read that book.</p>
<p>While there are obviously issues that conservatives and progressives simply are not going to agree on, the reason why conversations like these are so important is because I know there are more than a few folks who would love to hear both sides but may never have the opportunity unless they find a blog such as this one. And I wholeheartedly agree that we certainly don’t want to do anything to insult or discourage those who are seeking to make an informed decision.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Alan S.</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/11/epicycles-and-the-conservative-churches-of-christ/#comment-2302</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alan S.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=383#comment-2302</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We who are less traditional in the Churches of Christ can also learn a valuable lesson from Galileo.  He got in trouble from the Catholic Church not so much for his teachings on the Solar System, but because in defending his beliefs he ridiculed his critics, including the Pope.

Lesson - Ridiculing our more traditional brothers in the Churches of Christ will not win us any disagreements.

God bless]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We who are less traditional in the Churches of Christ can also learn a valuable lesson from Galileo.  He got in trouble from the Catholic Church not so much for his teachings on the Solar System, but because in defending his beliefs he ridiculed his critics, including the Pope.</p>
<p>Lesson &#8211; Ridiculing our more traditional brothers in the Churches of Christ will not win us any disagreements.</p>
<p>God bless</p>
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