Comments on: In re Dialogue, by Mac Deaver http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/05/in-re-dialogue-by-mac-deaver/ GraceConversation.com Wed, 18 Aug 2010 23:24:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Nick Gill http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/05/in-re-dialogue-by-mac-deaver/#comment-2316 Nick Gill Wed, 12 Aug 2009 21:42:58 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=364#comment-2316 I didn't think of the privacy aspect -- you're right. Even though he gave permission for it to be shared, it was not written that way. I appreciate Mac's work here and his Christian life -- one of my best mentors comes from the Deaver circle of influence, and I owe most of my Christian life to his unwillingness to let me go. What matters most is that Christ is preached. in HIS love, nick I didn’t think of the privacy aspect — you’re right. Even though he gave permission for it to be shared, it was not written that way.

I appreciate Mac’s work here and his Christian life — one of my best mentors comes from the Deaver circle of influence, and I owe most of my Christian life to his unwillingness to let me go.

What matters most is that Christ is preached.

in HIS love,
nick

]]> By: Dell Kimberly http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/05/in-re-dialogue-by-mac-deaver/#comment-2313 Dell Kimberly Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:59:01 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=364#comment-2313 James I certainly will allow you to take back the name you called me. I did not hold it against you. I do believe that if you are going to strongly state your opinion that you ought to have the courage to give your name, this includes all who post. I do not believe that holding different views is necessarily wrong in and of itself. The holding of different views becomes a problem when we bind those views on others as truth. The Pharasees bound their views as the only view acceptable. Their interpretation of Scripture became the standard by which everything else was measured. The same thing has happened with a segment of the church today. Their interpretation of Scripture has become the standard by which all is judged. This makes their interpretation binding on all men in their eyes. This is an impossible position to defend. This is where we find Mac and Phil. Not only does this divide the body of Christ it also takes away the direction God intended for the church. Instead of preaching Jesus we become keepers of the faith. This attitude toward all things spiritual is destroying the ability of the group we know as Churches of Christ to reach the world for Jesus. This attitude of judgmentalism and legalism paints all of us with the same broad brush. I for one do not wish to be viewed as holding these beliefs and views. I will always consider any who is following Jesus, who has accepted his gift of salvation and obeyed the gospel of the master as a brother whether I agree or not with all they teach. We can do one of two things we can either stand in the center and look out to where we believe the circle of fellowship is drawn or we can allow Christ to be in the center. If He is in the center we can look to Him and allow Jesus to draw the circle. As for me, I will leave Jesus in the center and allow Him to draw the circle. James I certainly will allow you to take back the name you called me. I did not hold it against you. I do believe that if you are going to strongly state your opinion that you ought to have the courage to give your name, this includes all who post. I do not believe that holding different views is necessarily wrong in and of itself. The holding of different views becomes a problem when we bind those views on others as truth. The Pharasees bound their views as the only view acceptable. Their interpretation of Scripture became the standard by which everything else was measured. The same thing has happened with a segment of the church today. Their interpretation of Scripture has become the standard by which all is judged. This makes their interpretation binding on all men in their eyes. This is an impossible position to defend. This is where we find Mac and Phil. Not only does this divide the body of Christ it also takes away the direction God intended for the church. Instead of preaching Jesus we become keepers of the faith. This attitude toward all things spiritual is destroying the ability of the group we know as Churches of Christ to reach the world for Jesus. This attitude of judgmentalism and legalism paints all of us with the same broad brush. I for one do not wish to be viewed as holding these beliefs and views. I will always consider any who is following Jesus, who has accepted his gift of salvation and obeyed the gospel of the master as a brother whether I agree or not with all they teach. We can do one of two things we can either stand in the center and look out to where we believe the circle of fellowship is drawn or we can allow Christ to be in the center. If He is in the center we can look to Him and allow Jesus to draw the circle. As for me, I will leave Jesus in the center and allow Him to draw the circle.

]]> By: James http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/05/in-re-dialogue-by-mac-deaver/#comment-2312 James Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:38:30 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=364#comment-2312 I began my walk with Christ as an adult and I too "grew" up with men as you say like Mac. I do not agree with much that they say. You too want to unite only on your terms. Disagree with a conservative and he'll write you up in his bulletin. Disagree with one who's thinking is progressive or liberal and he will attack you with snake venom. As to a last name there are at least seven on this post here with no last name. I guess they are dastardly cowards too? In closing, so I want be guilty of judging you, tell me what do you think? Dell, if I may use only one name and if you will allow me I will take back the name I called you, "critic." I do not know you. Now Tell me what do you think? I began my walk with Christ as an adult and I too “grew” up with men as you say like Mac. I do not agree with much that they say. You too want to unite only on your terms. Disagree with a conservative and he’ll write you up in his bulletin. Disagree with one who’s thinking is progressive or liberal and he will attack you with snake venom. As to a last name there are at least seven on this post here with no last name. I guess they are dastardly cowards too? In closing, so I want be guilty of judging you, tell me what do you think? Dell, if I may use only one name and if you will allow me I will take back the name I called you, “critic.” I do not know you. Now Tell me what do you think?

]]> By: dell kimberly http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/05/in-re-dialogue-by-mac-deaver/#comment-2311 dell kimberly Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:17:22 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=364#comment-2311 James, have enough courage to put your entire name to your post. James, have enough courage to put your entire name to your post.

]]> By: dell kimberly http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/05/in-re-dialogue-by-mac-deaver/#comment-2310 dell kimberly Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:10:15 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=364#comment-2310 James you have no clue as to what I am? I grew up at the feet of men like Mac. In the past I have held the same damaging and judgmental views as Mac and Phil hold today. The legalism that is spewed forth by those who hold these views is doing tremendous damage to the cause of Christ. Mac's arguments are the same tired diatribe that has been presented since Daniel Sommers first introduced this poison more than 100 years ago. The "conservative" element of the church wants unity only on their terms. Either you hold their view as gospel or you are lost. There is nothing between. Before you peg me as anything you would do well to actually ask me what I think. Otherwise you are guilty of the same mistakes made by most conservatives, you are judging without the facts. Thanks for your concern and deep insight. James you have no clue as to what I am? I grew up at the feet of men like Mac. In the past I have held the same damaging and judgmental views as Mac and Phil hold today. The legalism that is spewed forth by those who hold these views is doing tremendous damage to the cause of Christ. Mac’s arguments are the same tired diatribe that has been presented since Daniel Sommers first introduced this poison more than 100 years ago. The “conservative” element of the church wants unity only on their terms. Either you hold their view as gospel or you are lost. There is nothing between. Before you peg me as anything you would do well to actually ask me what I think. Otherwise you are guilty of the same mistakes made by most conservatives, you are judging without the facts. Thanks for your concern and deep insight.

]]> By: James http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/05/in-re-dialogue-by-mac-deaver/#comment-2309 James Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:51:33 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=364#comment-2309 Dell and Clarene, your comments are (possibly)why the time has come to end the discussions. You two are not learners or searches but critics. All four men put in their study and their hearts, so, why be so critical? I don't know any of the four men but they all did their best. They did what they did to help and to unite but it is not going to happen. To many people like you (let me add Royce in there too)to harp and criticize. These four men will not be the One to end this discussion but I hope you KNOW the One who will. Matthew 13:24-30, Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; (25) but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. (26) But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. (27) So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' (28) He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?' (29) But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. (30) Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'" Dell and Clarene, your comments are (possibly)why the time has come to end the discussions. You two are not learners or searches but critics. All four men put in their study and their hearts, so, why be so critical? I don’t know any of the four men but they all did their best. They did what they did to help and to unite but it is not going to happen. To many people like you (let me add Royce in there too)to harp and criticize. These four men will not be the One to end this discussion but I hope you KNOW the One who will.
Matthew 13:24-30, Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; (25) but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. (26) But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. (27) So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ (28) He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ (29) But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. (30) Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”‘”

]]> By: Clarene Dinkins http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/05/in-re-dialogue-by-mac-deaver/#comment-2295 Clarene Dinkins Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:58:49 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=364#comment-2295 It is hard to defend something that says nothing. It is hard to defend something that says nothing.

]]> By: Dell Kimberly http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/05/in-re-dialogue-by-mac-deaver/#comment-2286 Dell Kimberly Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:39:49 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=364#comment-2286 If I were Mac and Phil so would I. Hard to defend their position. If I were Mac and Phil so would I. Hard to defend their position.

]]> By: Clarene Dinkins http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/05/in-re-dialogue-by-mac-deaver/#comment-2285 Clarene Dinkins Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:37:53 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=364#comment-2285 Amen, Mac and Phil. Good job! Glad the conversation is over as far as the internet. Amen, Mac and Phil. Good job! Glad the conversation is over as far as the internet.

]]> By: Terry http://graceconversation.com/2009/08/05/in-re-dialogue-by-mac-deaver/#comment-2241 Terry Fri, 07 Aug 2009 03:04:16 +0000 http://graceconversation.com/?p=364#comment-2241 I especially appreciate Matt Dabbs' comments on this post. With his spirit, a little reconciliation could take place among us. I especially appreciate Matt Dabbs’ comments on this post. With his spirit, a little reconciliation could take place among us.

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