If God is the one that hardened Pharaoh’s heart how can he find fault with Pharaoh since no one can resist his (God’s) will? Who are you O man that that answers back to God? Will the thing molded say to the potter “Why did you make me this way?” Or does not the potter have the right over the clay to make of it what he will?

I could give you other texts and you could quote some back to me – or I could quote them for you as I have been through this discussion a few times already. But we don’t want to spend a lot of space trading proof texts here. Let’s just encourage each other to do more independent study.

I know we all read the same Bible. However, we all place more emphasis on some passages of scripture than others. Some of us come to the conclusion that the preponderance of scripture falls on one side and some on the other. That doesn’t mean the other side in not be intellectually honest.

Peace

We choose him because he first chose us.

Peace,
Randall

Secondly if God stands ready to judge us, why is that needed if all things are already decided, if we are going to select a path that is preprogrammed in us, how is it that we need to be judged since all things are fixed? And scary though the concept is, if God preprogammed some of us to hell, are we really responsible for those actions if we have no choice in the matter? If God stands ready to judge us and everything is already written out, should it not say God has already judged us, since he knows the end results of the selections we are going to make? Surely each of us has a choice in the matter! How else can we be accountable for those actions if the option to select another path were not available to us?

Secondly as far as a line in the sand for doctrine, what effect does acts of mercy play into that line? For instance:

James 2:12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!

In drawing our lines if we are unmerciful in that judgment are we not in danger? And what does it mean Mercy triumphs over judgment?

Or the Love factor in 1 Peter 4:8Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

Is this simply talking about Jesus love that covered our sins or something more that involves our actions also?

And if those passages play into the lines draw in the sand does it not Grey the line somewhat?

1. When false doctrine is another gospel (Gal. 1:6-9). In other words, when false doctrine results in one trusting in some other basis for salvation than the person and work of the only mediator and advocate, Jesus Christ. This would explain Paul’s extreme opposition to those who insisted on circumcision or any work of the law for Gentile admission into the church. It would explain his firm stand at the Jerusalem council.

2. When false doctrine leads to a habitual lifestyle of immorality. This would explain the apostle John’s firm stand against docetism in 1 John and 2 John. Doceticm, with it anti-materialistic worldview could lead to extreme asceticism, on the one hand, or sexual libertarianism, on the other hand. In the situation of 1 John it also led to an attitude of spiritual elitism where one did not love one’s brothers and sisters in Christ. The false teaching that is opposed by Jude and by Peter in 2 Peter are further examples. While it is clearly a doctrinal heresy, the emphasis throughout is on the ethical or moral failures of the false teaching.

Jude – the chief problem of the false teachers was how it led to moral failure
vs. 4 – perverted the grace of God – vs. 16 – moral sin – e.g. following their own passions
vs. 8 – rejected authority – that moral
vs. 12 – selfish – that’s moral
vs. 16 – arrogant, boasters – that’s moral
vs. 18 – scoffers – that’s moral
vs. 19 – devoid of the Spirit – arrogant, they thought they were the spiritual ones
vs. 19 – divisive – which is a moral sin

2 Peter 2:1-16 – more false teachers condemned – primarily due to immorality
vs. 1-3 – underhanded ethics and methods, exploitation, greed, shameful ways, deceptive methods; contrast Paul 1 Thess. 2:5
vs. 4-8 – God will judge them like he judged others; who are those he judged? primarily other immoral people in the past, not other false teachers; Sodom and Gomorrah, days of Noah and Lot, etc.
vs. 9-10 – emphasis on words like righteous and corrupt desire
vs. 10-11 – arrogance of the false teachers, rebellious, slanderous attitudes, irreverent
vs. 12-13 – live like animals
vs. 13-14 – eyes full of adultery, seduction, greed, blots and blemishes
vs. 15-16 – parallel with Balaam – greed

And now an illustration from a conservative former teacher of mine, Earl West, the great RM historian. He had a man come to him who wanted to “place membership” with the congregation where Dr. West preached, but the man confessed that he was premillennial. Dr. West said they would be glad to have him as a member there. He told him that he would not be allowed to teach his premillennial doctrine and from time-to-time he would have to listen to Dr. West preach against it. If he was willing to live and worship in that arrangement, they would gladly receive him into their fellowship. The man and his wife happily attended there for the next 20 years and eschatology was never mentioned. This man held what Dr. West considered to be a false doctrine, but it was not a doctrine which led him to (1) deny the gospel, that is, trust in something other than Jesus and God’s grace for his salvation, or (2) live an immoral lifestyle (e.g. he was not divisive regarding his premillennial belief and it did not make him an adulterer or a drunk).

Wayne I would be interested as to where you might get the answer to your question.

The answer to your question is Yes.

Neither side of the sovereignty vs. free will argument is willing to tolerate the tension that Scripture creates and does not resolve between these two ideas.

The answer is Yes.