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	<title>Comments on: Proposition One: Doctrinal error can lead to eternal damnation, by Phil Sanders</title>
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		<title>By: Dan Smith</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/04/02/proposition-one-doctrinal-error-can-lead-to-eternal-damnation/#comment-844</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 18:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=59#comment-844</guid>
		<description>Rom 7:21-8:2 (surely the absolute worse chapter division in all scripture) with Gal 5 inserted:

So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind [love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control], but with my flesh I serve the law of sin [sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these]. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

Paraphrase (mine)
Even though, with my flesh/body I&#039;m enslaved to sin, with my mind/spirit I&#039;m enslaved to righteousness; therefore, I&#039;m IN CHRIST, free of the law of sin and death&#039;s condemnation.

Where, in this, is doctrinal error in the mind/teaching of the Christian who is enslaved to God and righteousness?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rom 7:21-8:2 (surely the absolute worse chapter division in all scripture) with Gal 5 inserted:</p>
<p>So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind [love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control], but with my flesh I serve the law of sin [sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these]. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.</p>
<p>Paraphrase (mine)<br />
Even though, with my flesh/body I&#8217;m enslaved to sin, with my mind/spirit I&#8217;m enslaved to righteousness; therefore, I&#8217;m IN CHRIST, free of the law of sin and death&#8217;s condemnation.</p>
<p>Where, in this, is doctrinal error in the mind/teaching of the Christian who is enslaved to God and righteousness?</p>
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		<title>By: What Is &#8220;Truth&#8221;? The &#8220;Teaching of Christ&#8221; in 2 John &#171; One In Jesus.info</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/04/02/proposition-one-doctrinal-error-can-lead-to-eternal-damnation/#comment-832</link>
		<dc:creator>What Is &#8220;Truth&#8221;? The &#8220;Teaching of Christ&#8221; in 2 John &#171; One In Jesus.info</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 12:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=59#comment-832</guid>
		<description>[...] won&#8217;t have to look far to find this very argument made at GraceConversation or in comments here at OneInJesus, and many other places. This is a classic conservative argument. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] won&#8217;t have to look far to find this very argument made at GraceConversation or in comments here at OneInJesus, and many other places. This is a classic conservative argument. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Scott</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/04/02/proposition-one-doctrinal-error-can-lead-to-eternal-damnation/#comment-772</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 17:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=59#comment-772</guid>
		<description>Wayne,

Your closing quotation reminds me of the observation once made by G.C.Brewer (one-time editor of the Gospel Advocate) who said, &quot;We sing a better Gospel than we preach.&quot;

Blessings,
Alan Scott
Sugar Land, TX</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne,</p>
<p>Your closing quotation reminds me of the observation once made by G.C.Brewer (one-time editor of the Gospel Advocate) who said, &#8220;We sing a better Gospel than we preach.&#8221;</p>
<p>Blessings,<br />
Alan Scott<br />
Sugar Land, TX</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Scott</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/04/02/proposition-one-doctrinal-error-can-lead-to-eternal-damnation/#comment-771</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 17:01:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=59#comment-771</guid>
		<description>Matt,

I am surprised by your comment, &quot;I’m afraid the comments section will continue to be a “progressives only” party.&quot;

Don&#039;t you realize that all are invited but only a few choose to come to the feast.  :-)

I am glad you have chosen to come.

God bless,
Alan Scott
Sugar Land, TX</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>I am surprised by your comment, &#8220;I’m afraid the comments section will continue to be a “progressives only” party.&#8221;</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t you realize that all are invited but only a few choose to come to the feast.  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I am glad you have chosen to come.</p>
<p>God bless,<br />
Alan Scott<br />
Sugar Land, TX</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Sanders</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/04/02/proposition-one-doctrinal-error-can-lead-to-eternal-damnation/#comment-759</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Sanders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=59#comment-759</guid>
		<description>Here is a link to several sermons I preached just this week in Elizabethtown, KY. I preached a sermon entitled, The Gospel.

http://www.elizabethtownchurchofchrist.com/Gospel%20Meetings.htm

BTW, many millions of people can hear my sermons many weeks on &quot;In Search of the Lord&#039;s Way.&quot; It goes out all over the country.  On March 29, I preached one entitled the &quot;Gift of Repentance.&quot; I also encourage you to listen to &quot;People Can Change.&quot; I want you to hear my heart, not judge me on the basis of a few posts.

If you wish to hear and read hundreds of sermons I have preached (also see the Evangelism Handbook), go to   

www.God-answers.org

thanks,
phil

www.searchtv.org

Phil</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a link to several sermons I preached just this week in Elizabethtown, KY. I preached a sermon entitled, The Gospel.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.elizabethtownchurchofchrist.com/Gospel%20Meetings.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.elizabethtownchurchofchrist.com/Gospel%20Meetings.htm</a></p>
<p>BTW, many millions of people can hear my sermons many weeks on &#8220;In Search of the Lord&#8217;s Way.&#8221; It goes out all over the country.  On March 29, I preached one entitled the &#8220;Gift of Repentance.&#8221; I also encourage you to listen to &#8220;People Can Change.&#8221; I want you to hear my heart, not judge me on the basis of a few posts.</p>
<p>If you wish to hear and read hundreds of sermons I have preached (also see the Evangelism Handbook), go to   </p>
<p><a href="http://www.God-answers.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.God-answers.org</a></p>
<p>thanks,<br />
phil</p>
<p><a href="http://www.searchtv.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.searchtv.org</a></p>
<p>Phil</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/04/02/proposition-one-doctrinal-error-can-lead-to-eternal-damnation/#comment-758</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=59#comment-758</guid>
		<description>I was actually being sincere about wanting to hear a great gospel sermon on this forum by phil. Why do you have to judge my heart so harshly without trying to see where it is. I just am tired of all of these sermons that have little to do with Jesus&#039;s real message and more to do with nitpicking traditions and opinions. If I knew Phil&#039;s work why would I need to ask! This jumping the gun juding of mens hearts has really become a problem in the brotherhood. I now Jesus told them to baptize, it&#039;s part of the gospel. We focus to much inside the church and not enough outside, and that my friend is why the church numbers are truely declining!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was actually being sincere about wanting to hear a great gospel sermon on this forum by phil. Why do you have to judge my heart so harshly without trying to see where it is. I just am tired of all of these sermons that have little to do with Jesus&#8217;s real message and more to do with nitpicking traditions and opinions. If I knew Phil&#8217;s work why would I need to ask! This jumping the gun juding of mens hearts has really become a problem in the brotherhood. I now Jesus told them to baptize, it&#8217;s part of the gospel. We focus to much inside the church and not enough outside, and that my friend is why the church numbers are truely declining!</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/04/02/proposition-one-doctrinal-error-can-lead-to-eternal-damnation/#comment-757</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 19:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=59#comment-757</guid>
		<description>Matt, I didn&#039;t ask you to speak &quot;for&quot; all conservatives.  I asked you to speak &quot;to&quot; them.  

I thought you had said that if someone listened to enough of your preaching they would hear you preach the gospel.  I didn&#039;t dispute that.  I just think the same can be said for others who are accused by some folks of preaching &#039;another gospel.&#039;  

I don&#039;t think the circumcision / law issues in Galatians are equivalent to the matters over which conservatives and progressives differ.   We shouldn&#039;t be invoking &quot;anathema&quot; on people who disagree with us on most of these things.  The issue in Galatians was about adding requirements that must be met in order to be saved.  The things conservatives and progressives disagree about today are of an entirely different nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, I didn&#8217;t ask you to speak &#8220;for&#8221; all conservatives.  I asked you to speak &#8220;to&#8221; them.  </p>
<p>I thought you had said that if someone listened to enough of your preaching they would hear you preach the gospel.  I didn&#8217;t dispute that.  I just think the same can be said for others who are accused by some folks of preaching &#8216;another gospel.&#8217;  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the circumcision / law issues in Galatians are equivalent to the matters over which conservatives and progressives differ.   We shouldn&#8217;t be invoking &#8220;anathema&#8221; on people who disagree with us on most of these things.  The issue in Galatians was about adding requirements that must be met in order to be saved.  The things conservatives and progressives disagree about today are of an entirely different nature.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Littleton</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/04/02/proposition-one-doctrinal-error-can-lead-to-eternal-damnation/#comment-756</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Littleton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=59#comment-756</guid>
		<description>For what it&#039;s worth, I tend to agree that the comments section isn&#039;t helping the discussion.  Some of the posts have been relevant and have contributed in a constructive way to the dialogue, but many of them in my opinion have not.  I think the format might need to be restructured in some way.  I&#039;d hate to see the comment section closed entirely, but some sort of adjustments, I believe, are in order.

In the meantime -- again, for what it&#039;s worth -- I would just plead with everyone to check (and double check) the way the tone of your posts might be perceived by others before hitting &quot;Submit Comment.&quot;  We need more light here, not heat.

Not trying to throw stones at anyone -- just trying to offer some help...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, I tend to agree that the comments section isn&#8217;t helping the discussion.  Some of the posts have been relevant and have contributed in a constructive way to the dialogue, but many of them in my opinion have not.  I think the format might need to be restructured in some way.  I&#8217;d hate to see the comment section closed entirely, but some sort of adjustments, I believe, are in order.</p>
<p>In the meantime &#8212; again, for what it&#8217;s worth &#8212; I would just plead with everyone to check (and double check) the way the tone of your posts might be perceived by others before hitting &#8220;Submit Comment.&#8221;  We need more light here, not heat.</p>
<p>Not trying to throw stones at anyone &#8212; just trying to offer some help&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Clifton</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/04/02/proposition-one-doctrinal-error-can-lead-to-eternal-damnation/#comment-755</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Clifton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=59#comment-755</guid>
		<description>Wayne,

So you have cast judgment, even though you do not know me, and even though Dell and I are friends and brothers and have absolutely no animosity?

I thought maybe things were better in here, but apparently not. I&#039;m afraid the comments section will continue to be a &quot;progressives only&quot; party.

May God bless you all as you seek His will,

Matt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne,</p>
<p>So you have cast judgment, even though you do not know me, and even though Dell and I are friends and brothers and have absolutely no animosity?</p>
<p>I thought maybe things were better in here, but apparently not. I&#8217;m afraid the comments section will continue to be a &#8220;progressives only&#8221; party.</p>
<p>May God bless you all as you seek His will,</p>
<p>Matt</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Clifton</title>
		<link>http://graceconversation.com/2009/04/02/proposition-one-doctrinal-error-can-lead-to-eternal-damnation/#comment-754</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Clifton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 17:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://graceconversation.com/?p=59#comment-754</guid>
		<description>Alan,

First, I do not speak for &quot;all the conservatives.&quot; Second, I do not recall having said anything about &quot;Person A.&quot;

Third, the argument you put forth is comparing apples to oranges. Jesus said to teach ALL that He commanded. Not everything He taught was about the death, burial and resurrection, although it all relates to our response to it. The apostles, of course, taught perfectly those things Jesus wanted them to teach (ie all that He commanded). 

A person that teaches others to use instrumental music is not teaching people &quot;all the He commanded,&quot; since Jesus never taught it, nor the apostles. 

Someone who teaches about how to resole conflicts (Matt. 18:15-17) or how to be a good husband and father (Eph. 5, for instance) are teaching what Christ commanded.

I am actually ashamed of some of you guys who would accuse a man like Phil of not preaching the gospel.  

I remember, now, why I was staying away from here!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,</p>
<p>First, I do not speak for &#8220;all the conservatives.&#8221; Second, I do not recall having said anything about &#8220;Person A.&#8221;</p>
<p>Third, the argument you put forth is comparing apples to oranges. Jesus said to teach ALL that He commanded. Not everything He taught was about the death, burial and resurrection, although it all relates to our response to it. The apostles, of course, taught perfectly those things Jesus wanted them to teach (ie all that He commanded). </p>
<p>A person that teaches others to use instrumental music is not teaching people &#8220;all the He commanded,&#8221; since Jesus never taught it, nor the apostles. </p>
<p>Someone who teaches about how to resole conflicts (Matt. 18:15-17) or how to be a good husband and father (Eph. 5, for instance) are teaching what Christ commanded.</p>
<p>I am actually ashamed of some of you guys who would accuse a man like Phil of not preaching the gospel.  </p>
<p>I remember, now, why I was staying away from here!</p>
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